I was recently joking with Martin Bean (a friend, fellow web designer and founder of MCB Studios) about a couple of silly web design enquiries I’ve received over the past few days. Between us, we realised, we had quite a number of such stories and quotes to share with you, here are 10 of the best (or worst!) ones.
#10 - “I have an idea for a website which could by the next eBay and I need a web design partner…”
I got this email when I was young and naive, so I agreed to meet this guy to discuss his plan over coffee in Central London after work one evening. It turns out his idea of “the next eBay” was to clone eBay itself! Indeed, he had acquired a rip-off domain name and wanted an identically functioning website, to be delivered within 6 weeks, and to be within his budget which was £900. I made my excuses and walked out.
Meet the new eBay, same as the old eBay.
#9 - “I want you to use this photo. I want it to be in landscape, but changed so that the height is bigger than the width”
You may presume here that this is just a case of a client not knowing the term ‘portrait’, but you’d be wrong. It was a photo of the building which the client in question operates from; the client wanted this photo stretched vertically so the building looked “taller and more corporate”. Bizarre I know, but this might have worked were there not trees in the foreground which made the whole effort look completely ridiculous. I tried in vain to convince the client to remove it, but the response I received boiled down to “I’m paying you to do a job, so do it as I tell you”. Fair enough.
Then they got all offended when I removed my “Designed by…” credit from the bottom of their site.
#8 - “Black on white is boring. How about hot pink on lime green? And can we make the logo spin? And Ariel is boring, let’s use Comic Sans.”
Of course this is not an actual quote and yes, it is a mild exaggeration, but the proportion of web design clients who fail to grasp the basics of good, sensible design is staggering. Just because you can make an element on the page animated doesn’t mean you should. Just because you can use a kooky font doesn’t mean you should.
I don’t hold it against a client for not having good design sense - that is my job. However, it does irritate me when my advice is ignored completely. One school of thought is that they’re paying me to do a job so I should do it exactly as they specify. Another school of thought is that it is a good designer’s job to convince the client against stupid design decisions. I think I lie somewhere in the middle - I’ll always make a case againse their ill-advised design choice, but if they’re still insistent, why waste more of my time?
#7 - “Use these photos, I got them from Google Images”
A big problem I encountered recently was with a client who provided a number of images for me to use on his site. I didn’t realise this, but he’d lifted them all from other websites, having done searches on Google Images. A few weeks after launching the site I received an angry email from a professional photographer who was accusing me of stealing his images. Clearly he was in the right (the image in question was part of a series he was presenting via his website) so I forwarded to the client his request to remove them. Soon the truth came out: every single one of the client’s images had been lifted from other sites, and he refused to remove them. Thankfully I include a liability disclaimer in my web design contracts which indemnifies me from claims that supplied images are copyright protected. In other words: if he gets caught, he’s got to deal with it. Last I heard, the photographer has initiated a copyright infringement claim against him, all because the client is stubborn.
#6 - “It sucks.”
Constructive criticism is a good thing. “It sucks” doesn’t fit that description.
This is a conversation I had with a client. I had just emailed them a link to a demo of a web page I’d made for them. The underlying page structure was identical, but I’d modified the CSS to change some colours and alter the size of some H1 and H2 tags. Nothing that major.
Client: I don’t like it.
Me: OK… what about it don’t you like?
Client: I don’t like any of it. It doesn’t work for me.
Me: Is it the colours, or…?
Client: No it’s ALL of it. You need to change this all completely.
Me: I only changed the colour scheme and the size of the headings. It’s otherwise the same as the last version.
Client: (pause) Well, now I don’t like it, change it back.
The client then agreed to use the original version.
#5 - “Why is your quote so expensive? My nephew can do [a 5 page website] for £50″
If he’s so good, just get him to do it. Even if site looks like this:
It doesn’t matter what quality your site is so long as you have one, right?
The quote above represents the attitude of too many small businesses acquiring their first website. A significant proportion of my clients already have existing clients designed by the boss’ son / the boss’ nephew / the office junior / the work experience kid /the boss himself using Publisher. In time, they realise that good web design is best left to the professionals.
#4 - “I paid for my domain name by credit card. My credit card billing address is in Oxford. So why doesn’t my site come up in Google when I type in ‘Oxford’?”
My response, in a nutshell, was: because it’s a one page website which hasn’t been indexed by Google, and the content did not refer to Oxford once.
I didn’t bother responding to the follow-up email, which began “Thanks for your response. Just a few follow-up questions” then asked about two or three dozen questions - “why am I not #1 in Google“, “why won’t anyone link to me“, “how do I get to #1 in Google“, etc. I followed the link at the bottom of their website to find their existing designers, who boast proudly to be SEO experts. I advised that this is a question for them, not me. There’s plenty of free information out there about SEO too, I’m not going to waste my time explaining it when some comprehensive answers to those questions have been answered in forums and blog posts many times over.
#3 - “I want to be number one in Google for the term ‘consultant’. My budget is £200.”
I just had to write back to this guy. What kind of consultant is he anyway? Turns out he was a life coach operating in the South-East of England, and didn’t even have a site yet. I briefly explained that it is useless to target the generic term ‘consultant’, far better to go for something like ‘London life coach’, and that the whole effort was useless when there wasn’t even a site in the first place. His response? “If I’m only going to show up for ‘London life coach’ then the cost should decrease proportionally. £25 should be enough.” No, it won’t.
#2 - “Just one more small change…”
Though it seems trivial to “change everything from red to orange“, you might have to change a PSD or PNG file, export all the slices, modify the stylesheet, modify some other details to complement the new colour… the list goes on. Only for the client to say “nah, I don’t like the orange. Make it red again“.
#1 - “We can’t afford to pay you but we’ll let you have a link back to your site.”
How generous. This is a particularly common request, some variations of which are “we won’t pay you but all our customers will see it” and “we’ll pay you once the website turns a profit“. A few months ago, a lot of people were finding my website by searching Google for “UK web design student” or similar, and my site was ranking highly. Therefore I was getting one or two of these requests per week. I now have a stock response to this:
Thank you for your enquiry. MB Web Design does not undertake any speculative work. I encourage you to read this article.
http://www.no-spec.com/articles/why-speculation-hurts/
Of course, they won’t write back because they’re cheapskates who want to exploit students to get a website on the cheap. This issue only seems to be getting worse - everyone with a computer and a copy of Dreamweaver can log onto sites like Gumtree and Craigslist and call themselves web designers*, freelancer sites like Elance allow prospective customers outsource their web design requirements to the lowest bidder. Both of these tend to be sources where price is proportional to talent. Craigslist in particular is often frequented by businesses seeking students to do their work for free as it will give them something to put in their portfolio.
* This is a generalisation of course, there are some good designers on these sites as well. They’re the ones who charge the most.
Conclusion
This post has been rather tongue-in-cheek but does highlight a fundamental problem of being a web designer. People hire you because you are the expert. It is, of course, unreasonable to expect your clients to be as savvy as you so patience and understanding are pre-requisites. However, they ran a little thin with the people mentioned above!
I’m sure in a couple of months I’ll have to update this with a few more “nightmare” clients and potential clients. Feel free to add a comment with your own experiences.
Tags: clients, ebay, internet, seo, web design
May 18th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Well I can say, I have been building web sites for my company for 6 year. I have each one of them and I swear if I were not in the states I would have guess my boss were in London. I dont envey anyone who goes into webdesign, its a thankless job and you have to be very strong shouldered or not care what people think of your work, because no matter what someone will have an opion of what they like better. Small changes are never small.
May 18th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
Some of these are funny
May 18th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
I like it when the client wants a site, gets the quote, pays, gets the site when I’m all done… then comes back months later wanting it all redone (for free) to look like some other website that they like.
Or what is funnier is when someone wants a site but offers you NO insight on what sort of thing they’re looking for… “just make it look professional” … no clue on content or what they want the site to actually do (as far as contact forms or other information)…
I miss the clients who know what they want and can offer great suggestions for change rather than “no I don’t like that.”
May 18th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
My favourite was “We love the design you pitched, the job is yours! By the way, we’re changing the design completely, (read: now it will look terrible): here’s a CD of cute graphics, use them all. Your designer is now our graphics monkey and we won’t pay you for 10 months after the project goes live.” Thanks Although we did more for them… prepaid of course.
May 18th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
Man, does this ever ring familiar… and I could definitely add to your list.
One worth mentioning: a client recently informed my company that a form on her site was broken. We asked what was broken and she explained that the ENTER button shouldn’t submit automatically, that this isn’t what people expect, that people use the ENTER button to “move from field to field”. We really didn’t know what to say at first.
May 18th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
Should I add #0: boss pay a big deal for you to design the website. Boss runs out of money. Boss asks his son, a college kid who barely passed Dreamweaver 101, to maintain the website. Boss’s son screws your site over, replace Lucida Grande with Berlin San FB and fonts that he thinks is “cool”. Everything is flashy and jumping now.
Your Google Analytics is also removed and now boss wonders where his vistors are coming from and what keywords should he buy from Google.
You removed his website from your personal portfolio, but too bad, boss proudly links his to yours. Now your portfolio is screwed too!
May 18th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
These are priceless!
http://www.derailer.org/clientquotes/?qid=1
May 18th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
Me: “What type of design do you have in mind?”
Client: “I want something really cool.”
Me: “Do you have a color scheme in mind or perhaps some ideas for the layout?”
Client: “No, just make it really cool.”
May 18th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
These are so true. I gave up on freelance design awhile ago and am now working in Computer Networking. I still design sites and love to do it, but clients like that ruined the money side of it.
May 18th, 2007 at 7:15 pm
This feels all much too familiar…
May 18th, 2007 at 7:17 pm
I like #4 because its the only one that’s never happened to me
May 18th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
I can identify all to well.
One kind that I particularly hate:
“I need you to [huge list of things]. Now, I’m capable of doing all these things myself, but I just don’t have the time - so I’m going to have you do it.”
In turn, you do a ton of work and then have to listen to them scrutinize every last piece of it and abide by their completely blind design eye.
May 18th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
I have been through some variation of each one of these. Case in point, 1) Bill hourly and 2) use version control.
May 18th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
I can design a site but chose not to. I’d prefer to do infrastructure things like build the server that will host the web pages, etc.
But I’ve seen some absolutely hideous web designs. I recall the days before Talkcity became a cesspool. I met this woman who had figured out how to do CGI bots and who also styled herself a web designer.
So I visited her web sites and was aghast at what utter pieces of crap they were. She and I got into a little brawl about it, and she tried to sic TC management on me and management essentially told her to pound sand. What a glorious day that was.
It’s why my wordpress site just uses defaults. I could be bothered with the trivia of the css, etc.
May 18th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
This atricle has given me at least 15 deja-vu’s & naghtmarish flashbacks! I’m sending this link to each of theose EX-clients!!
May 18th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
My favorite from past experience:
I worked as an independent designer/developer, hired by Agency X (an advertising/marketing agency) to develop a Web presence for Manufacturer Y.
First meeting went well with Manufacturer Y - I was included, representing myself as from Agency X (no need for the client to get confused on who the creative director is in charge of the process - she came with me and lead the meeting). Things looked promising.
From there, it was all downhill. Creative director from Agency X was a nightmare to work with, giving me conflicting information from what the client (Manufacturer Y) wanted - this was clear in the brief and she continually veered from it. That, and the imagery necessary was difficult at best to either obtain or identify (I’m no expert in the minute differences between sommelflanges an their respective torque).
The project ended long overdue, with me losing much money in labor, time, sleep and final payout.
The worst part of it all - I had a good relationship with Manufacturer Y (they actually liked my work and wanted to get rid of Agency X) but in the end were so fed up any future work was impossible.
May 18th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
This made my day! All of these anecdotes are so true.
I think there should be an entire website devoted to stories like these! A Web 2.0 Community of web designers sharing their horror stories with each other. A support group more or less!
But the catch is…we’ll have to find some poor students to do it for free because I’m too busy making a living. Heh.
Kudos on this article though!!
May 18th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
Great top 10 list! It made me laugh (and cry, lol) how dead on this really is working as a web designer.
May 18th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
Wow, I just had someone walk by my office as I was reading this and ask me how they make a website for a domain they purchased a month ago to be the next webmd… Thats what I call timing.
May 18th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
Mines was the annoying type, that goes in line with #6, but with a added bonus. I had already mentioned that we had done a lot of time and we aren’t getting nowhere. I decided to inform the client that so and so many hours had been used and we had agreed in the beginning, that my pay will be paid by the hour…
“yes, but I will only pay for what I concider is good quality, I’m not seeing it in this. So untill this far there isn’t a single hour to be paid!”
She told this to me on the phone and I pretty much told her, that if she isn’t going to pay anything. No way in hell she will ever see anything anymore. Few minutes after that I deleted every single thing from the server. Funny thing is that every single professional who had seen it (we constantly show our work to each other and we get to blame others for fuckups) said it was spot on. Clients, who needs them. Damn I’m lucky for this in-house job. Screw freelance
May 18th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
Well written
Definitely going to bookmark this one, lol
May 18th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
How do you become #1 in Google?? Kidding.
May 18th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
[...] Nightmare Design Clients. Really can’t comment on this one, but it’s safe to say, I’ve seen more than my fair share. Permalink You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site. [...]
May 18th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
[...] who were stupid, silly or downright weird. Maybe all three. Feel free to add your own stories.read more | digg [...]
May 18th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
I approach web design from an artistic standpoint - meaning, I know what’s best (as I am the one who’s been doing this for 6 years, and has the education and experience to back it up). I produce a concept as an original work of art - and my clients know that this is how I operate… you don’t question a painter’s style of painting… either you like it or you don’t. Why should web design be different?
I used to work for a company that would produce 3 concepts for a website client each time - which works fine in it’s own right… but since I have taken a more independent role in what I do - I’ll request a creative brief or work with a client to develop one… from there I’ll design a site concept for them. I *may* feel inclined to produce some variations - but of the same concept. This works fine for me. Despite having to deal with some stubborn clients from time to time, taking these liberties has not only furthered my career, but also allows me the freedom to create and be happy in what I do. If you believe in your work, other people will too.
May 18th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
[...] Read Nightmare web design clients [...]
May 18th, 2007 at 7:53 pm
lolz at the google images… lots of people dont understand why you cant just “borrow” images
May 18th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Fris, you’re legally entitled to be paid regardless. You should have had a lawyer draft a letter for you demanding payment and firing the client.
May 18th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
In regards to the spec work, I have a slightly different approach. What I try to explain to the potential client is that, by my doing free work, they are essentially asking me to become an investor in their company. I think that is a fair way to look at it. I explain to them that I am not opposed to investing in businesses, which is also true. However, I still need to make a living. I only have so much resources that I can devote and that I don’t invest in anything without knowing some basic financial details. They need to treat me as if they would an investor by showing me the business plan, financial projections and draw up a contract that explains how I am compensated for my work in exchange for stock, ownership, etc.
Obviously if the project seems like total BS and/or something that will never make any money I just say no thanks. But, occasionally a good idea comes along. I find that this approach weeds out the people who are looking for a free-ride from the potential projects that could actually be a great idea. I would hate to think that I missed my chance to be a founder of the next Google. But, you have to be able to recognize when people are serious or when they’re just trying to get something for nothing.
May 18th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Heh. I saw this post on Digg, and just laughed. . .
Web designing can be very frustrating, especially with the computer illiterate clients that have no clue what they are doing from the git-go. I have only designed a few sites, but I love the clients who do not give you hardly any information for your site. So your stuck in a bind as to what do, so you either start designing the website or just wait for more information from your client. Then when they start getting all over your butt, because there is no content on the site, except for the web design done.
I have also enjoyed the moments where you get done with a site and the client asks for that little change of a picture or something. It is like this is now going to take so much more time, because a web site is like art, everything fits into the site just right.
Awww, the love of web design.
May 18th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
#1 is the worst of them all for sure.
We get clients all the time saying that the exposure is good. “do if for your portfolio” thing is the worst as well, esp since we are 5 years and a nice portfolio.
Thanks for the article!
May 18th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
Hey look at this site: http://www.xyzxyz.com, can you make me a similar site?
Sure ..
HEY THATS NOT THE EXACT SAME !!!!!
May 18th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
It was hilarious to see your eBay client at the top. I just had a guy do the same thing with me. I asked him “If this was possible, why wouldn’t I do it myself for free and reap the rewards?”.
May 18th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
It seems to me like you’re targeting the wrong clients. Sure, they’ll all give you a little poo, but if you’re client is telling you that they know some kid who can do it for 50 bucks, then you should let that kid do it, because you’re wasting your time.
None of us developers like the “can we forget your way and do it this way…” clients, but it comes with the territory my friend. Part of my job is to educate my clients, and explain that “scratch-n-sniff” isn’t a possible feature for the web…at least not yet.
May 18th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
My most memorable conversation with a client was a 10 min. discussion/ description/ definition of ‘content’. I was about 50% done with the site and I had pre-populated the site with lipsum ipsum/ greeking. I informed the client that I would be needing the content to put in the site. It kind of went like this:
-I need to add your content to the site.
-But it is my site.
-Yes, it is your site but I need the content to put into the site.
-There is already content, you have my logo and idea already in there.
-Yes, but I need the ‘content’, the words and pictures and anything else you want in your site.
-But I see words already there.
-Yes, but that is going to be replace with your words, your content, when you give it to me.
-I don’t understand, I thought it was my site (sigh)
-Ah…
add nausea with a headache.
Can you take a guess why I don’t do it anymore?
May 18th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
Heres a few more…
Can you make the logo bigger… totally destroying the proportions of the site and making it look like the designer doesnt know what theyre doing… i always say no because its usually past the point where theyve signed off on the design
We’ve decided to rebrand the business ill send you over a logo next week… i HATE it when clients talk about logos as their brand… i could go on and on… and on… but i wont.
I want to work with a local firm… why because it makes email and telephone calls faster? dont be stupid… sure you’ll need to meet a few times but wouldnt it be better to employ a great designer at decent rates rather than some crappy local tin-pot company?
Having supplied 20% of the agreed content then whined to get the project complete i usually send an email sating we’ve moved onto phase 2 and started building the site (i outline in the briefing document that phase 2 is client sign off on content and the build gets started) then they come back once the site (re-jigged to accommodate 20% of the original proposed content) and they say “thats not what we agreed wheres this feature and that feature to which i politely reply “i can only work with the information you supply and this is all you supplied before pointing out that they put pressure on me to deliver to this deadline.
and have you had the one where “can i pop in and be there while your designing so i can pass comment and get things right first time” now for a start off im not a machine and ideas dont often immediately spring from my fingertips, secondly why would i want someone who has no idea of the process nitpicking through a design even im not happy with - its just sole destroying ill never do it again.
i have loads of patience and some really great customers who have excellent projects that generate profit in masses… and i have clients who ride roughshot over the process and get mediocrity… its sad but whatcha gonna do when someone wont listen to reason.
May 18th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
He He! I know the feeling. I wrote another tongue in cheek article you may enjoy which relates to number 5 on your list:
http://blog.voodoochilli.com/2007/02/15/teenage-web-information-technologists-twits/
Many thanks
May 18th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
How about the client who says:
“Of COURSE we want you to have creative control. We just want to be able to tell you how it looks and how it reads.”
Or:
“Put more babies on the home page. Women like babies and other feminine icons.”
Gaaaaah.
May 18th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
I think I’ve experienced all of these at one time or another. My biggest is #2, except I get clients who think it’s ok to call me at 10pm to request some trivial change. Lesson to be learned - set boundaries from the beginning. You might be one guy (or gal), but you are a business like any other. Time is money, if clients want your quality work, then they’ll have to pay for it.
May 18th, 2007 at 8:50 pm
I know these cases all to well first hand as a Freelancer. We are no longer “professionals” within our field because to them “anyone can use (insert program here) and do what you do”. To be under-minded and unappreciated for the skills you do have is clearly a big problem in many if not all creative fields. The trials of being a designer :p
May 18th, 2007 at 8:54 pm
Thanks for the amazing response everybody. As most of you will be aware (because you’ve come from there) this article hit Digg front page so I’m swamped with comments in moderation and emails are flooding in. Some excellent comments have been received, I’ll try to address them individually when things cool down a little.
May 18th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
I could do without the content-less clients. They want a site full of content, but they have no content ready for you, and aren’t that interested in writing it up. They expect you to extract it out of their heads somehow.
May 18th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
I had a client whose sole instruction to me was “Make my site liney”! I stared at him for 5 minutes with my mouth open and then really said “What the fuck does that mean?” After an hour’s discussion, it turned out he wanted a white on black site with boxes and lines. We ended up making him very happy. He’s been a client since 1997.
May 18th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
There is a website dedicated to stupid client quotes : http://www.clientcopia.com/
Please post’em there :).
By the way +1 for the guy suggesting the use of source control.
“change everything from red to orange“[...]“nah, I don’t like the orange. Make it red again“. With source control it would only take you a few seconds to go back.
May 18th, 2007 at 9:03 pm
[...] read more | digg story Posted by vamapaull Filed in [...]
May 18th, 2007 at 9:09 pm
[...] http://www.mbwebdesign.co.uk/blog/nightmare-web-design-clients/ [...]
May 18th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
This made my day! All of these anecdotes are so true.
I think there should be an entire website devoted to stories like these! A Web 2.0 Community of web designers sharing their horror stories with each other. A support group more or less!
But the catch is…we’ll have to find some poor students to do it for free because I’m too busy making a living. Heh.
Kudos on this article though!!
May 18th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
Boss: I like the design, but try it with a different shade of Green.
Me: Green?
Boss: The background
Me: That’s yellow
Boss: Looks green to me, but I’m a little bit colorblind. Anyway try it with a different shade.
May 18th, 2007 at 9:16 pm
Oh and another one - a client who can’t provide an electronic copy of their text and wants you to type it in from a hard copy. That’s bad enough, but I actually had a client give me copy for his website on a microcassette tape! 90 minutes of scratchy rambling audio.
May 18th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Hilarious and often true! Nice work.
May 18th, 2007 at 9:30 pm
I worked in a call center and volunteered to design the Intranet site, having done web design work in the past. I wanted the site to be fast-loading and flexible, so I learned and used CSS. I went with simple, elegant, clean lines and a minimalist color scheme. When I presented it to the group in charge of approving it, some other jackass hack with Dreamweaver and Fireworks had some ideas of his own all ready to go. His site featured an entire palette of colors based on the company’s sickeningly dominant red and blue, which was already everywhere–something I was trying to specifically avoid. (Red and blue don’t even look good together, IMHO.) He incorporated graphical headers with about 15 different display fonts of varying sizes, all drop-shadowed or embossed (or both). To top it off, he threw in some tacky animation and clip art, and it was all based on static pages (not even templates). I’ll give you one guess whose design won.
May 18th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
[...] Nightmare Web Design Clients Filed under: Uncategorized — recar @ 8:30 pm 10 Nightmare Web Design Clients Designers, you know what I’m talking about. Ten anecdotes about web design clients or [...]
May 18th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
As an emerging web developer who’s looking for employment, I can say you’ve saved me from plenty of bad experiences. Thanks for your advice!
May 18th, 2007 at 9:40 pm
You definitally hit the nail on the head. I was in stitches through the whole thing. It’s unbelievable sometimes. I have a huge list of these that I recall from time to time for a laugh from previous clients / would be clients / jobs I’ve run away from. Unfortunate though that you also have to deal with this nonsense.
May 18th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
This has been my life.
May 18th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
We need to use a more cheery blue.
It should Pop.
May 18th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
Great stories! I think I’ve lived nearly all of them.
Anyhow, I thought that you all might enjoy this:
http://www.seancarton.com/randomjunk/client_cards.pdf (900K PDF)
They’re some “client trading cards” I came up with a while back for a class.
May 18th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
The type that gives me heartburn is the:
Them: “Well, I know what I like when I see it.”
Me: “Here are 3 comps.”
Them: “Hmm… no. Can I see something else?”
Me:”What about these do you like/not like?”
Them: “Well, I know what I like when I see it.”
Me: Agghhhhhhh!!
May 18th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
@R Mason
Yeah I know, but I got so pissed off that it was more relaxing to bollocks her off than to start a legal hassle
May 18th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
If I give my price and they say I can get it cheaper “enter someone/place here” I just write back you get what you pay for!
May 18th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
I just got a call from my friend. “Can you make me a website and make me #1 on Google for ‘mortgage’?”
OMFG.
You speak the truth, my friend! People have no grasp on how large the Internet is and how many other sites — and paid placement ads — they’re up against to get even on the first page of Google results, let alone on a saturated topic such as mortgages.
My response: “I’ll build you any site you want to pay for, but I guarantee you’ll be wasting your money.”
May 18th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
I did work for a client that could not decide what they wanted. The old “I don’t know what I want, but I will know it when I see it”. I spent 8 weeks throwing out new design ideas and layouts at the request of my boss. The final outcome? A Frankenstein mix of several of the designs I had made… Oh and the colors. The client took one of the prototypes and redid the colors herself in FrontPage. She said, “I didn’t like the colors so I used the ones in my bathroom”. Fire Engine Red, Sunflower Yellow, Navy Blue, and White. Yummy!
May 18th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
What a great article - if you want to lose your entire existing client-base - now, they probably think you joke about them behind their backs.
Brilliant!
May 18th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
I see I’ve hit upon something a lot of you have experienced!
However, as someone just pointed out to me by PM (edit: as did R. Stephen, above), “does this mean you’re taking the piss out of your customers”? Good question - on the surface of things I am, but some more details to digest (for those of you who actually read this far down the page - well done!).
The fact is, the examples above represent a small percentage of my clients (and more importantly, *prospective* clients), but we all like a moan. As I said, one cannot expect your clients to be as savvy as you, which is why it’s important to be patient and understanding. The people mentioned above are the people who make the job I love doing fall just a little short of perfect.
Numbers 1,3,4,5 and 10 refer to prospective clients - and the kind of clients I have no interest pursuing - so frankly I’m not too worried about them finding this and getting pissed off.
Numbers 2, 6, and 9 were the SAME client, who eventually went bankrupt and I never saw the majority of the money I was owed. I would quite happily forward this email to her to illustrate what a cretin she was, and how hilarious you all find her ignorance.
Number 8 isn’t anyone in particular, just a generalisation / exaggeration of all those times I’ve decided to grin and bear it when a client’s design decision isn’t the best. As I said, I’ll give them the benefit of my advice, and it’s their choice to accept it or reject it.
Finally, number 7 I’m not on good terms with anyway (as the paragraph illustrates). He’s getting sued for copyright infringement and wants to blame me, despite the contract that buffoon signed in the first place and the fact that he supplied the images to me. Some of his email exchanges would provide another entertaining post, but I don’t want to dig myself into a legal grave.
As the response to this article proves, bad clients are everywhere - from the one-man business to some pencil pusher in a plush office building representing a big firm. I don’t subscribe to the theories that these “aren’t the kind of clients I should attract if I’m any good at my job”. A good web designer with a decent business head on his or her shoulders will have a good idea which clients to pursue and which are just going to be a pain and an unfair drain on one’s time. Of course, some will always slip through the filter.
Thank you all for so many intelligent, helpful and entertaining comments. Us web designers are a good bunch, aren’t we?
May 19th, 2007 at 12:01 am
Haha. Definately true. I work part-time in tech support, so.. I talk to weirdos all the time.
May 19th, 2007 at 12:14 am
Sometimes you just have to give these guys the big middle finger.
May 19th, 2007 at 12:28 am
[...] read more | digg [...]
May 19th, 2007 at 12:40 am
[...] Link: Nightmare web design clients [...]
May 19th, 2007 at 12:46 am
If you make a comic out of these than that would pay more than what you have earned for your hard work, working extra for these fools, lol.
I bookmarked your site, its pretty awesome.
May 19th, 2007 at 12:47 am
[...] guys over at MB Web Design have a great article on “Nightmare Web Design Clients“. Although humorous, the points are pretty universal. If you don’t want to be a [...]
May 19th, 2007 at 12:54 am
Wow this is so true. Well I personally hate using dreamweaver/frontpage to design becasue for me it is so much more rewarding to actually build the website using a text editor like Textmate ( Which Rules ) and just script it through css.
May 19th, 2007 at 12:56 am
[...] Top 10 Nightmare Web Design Clients [via Digg] [...]
May 19th, 2007 at 1:49 am
“What a great article - if you want to lose your entire existing client-base - now, they probably think you joke about them behind their backs.”
Oh yeah, because we all should kiss the asses of bad clients.
Sheesh! Have some freakin’ pride, man. Life’s too short to work for crappy clients.
May 19th, 2007 at 1:55 am
I think you scared me enough that the thought of not wanting to be a web designer has flew across my mind. Great read!
May 19th, 2007 at 2:28 am
This is a fantastic article. As a freelance web designer I can say that I feel each and everything you wrote about, especially the “well I have someone that can do it for $50″ thing. What personally makes that more enjoyable is when they let the person do it and are THEN BEGGING YOU to fix the mess!!!
I will be sure to post about it in my blog and include a link to it. My blog is located at http://bobbyhash.blogspot.com/
May 19th, 2007 at 2:57 am
[...] Selengkapnya bisa dibaca di MB Web Design. Lucu, pedih, menusuk, dan beberapa (atau malah semua) juga pernah saya alami. Anda yang sempat berkeinginan menjadi freelance web designer, baca dulu artikel tadi. Sebelum semua terlambat! [...]
May 19th, 2007 at 3:35 am
Beautiful. I think I will send this out as a mass email to all my clients.. you know just to keep them in touch with the nightmares we as webdesigners have to deal with each and every day.
May 19th, 2007 at 3:37 am
Did you hit the nail on the head, I’ve heard the same things over and over. I have learned to pick and choose based on the intelligence of the customer if I can! Great article.
May 19th, 2007 at 3:42 am
The issue relates to design, not websites. It’s a designer’s job to be both an aesthete and an engineer, and to unite the two. Problem is the client’s always the aesthete and knows nothing of engineering. Design cannot be done by a pure engineer, nor should it be done by hiring one and dictating requirements at them. A designer’s job is peculiar, and should only be done by them. A good design concept comes from an intersect between aesthetics and engineering. It fulfills both optimally.
A good design idea exactingly executed makes for an easy and enjoyable user experience. The person who invents the idea must be the designer.
The web makes it 10 times worse. It’s not the technology that needs upgrading now, we have broadband, CS3 and CSS. It’s the people who need upgrading. Clients, users, everybody. Honestly it’s getting pathetic. It could and will be amazing, but 20 years ago’s people just can’t grasp it.
May 19th, 2007 at 3:57 am
This is why I got out of web design after things went bust and decided to actually make money as an artist. So far, so good.
May 19th, 2007 at 4:02 am
Neat and Fantastic. We cannot educate everyone in this world. Good, you have listed most of the weird situations. Just stay in touch
May 19th, 2007 at 4:02 am
[...] Nightmare web design clients | MB Web Design Blog O pesadelo que qualquer um que trabalha com design (tags: webdesign design web development funny blog clients) [...]
May 19th, 2007 at 4:12 am
you nailed every point, right on the head
May 19th, 2007 at 4:39 am
I can’t afford to pay for this car, but I’ll tell everyone how great of a salesman you are because I got the car for free. Think of the exposure! Works a good for building houses, fixing plumbing, doing electrical work, buying a TV, filling up on gas, buying groceries. The possibilities are endless.
Good article.
May 19th, 2007 at 4:52 am
Wow, that was a great read. Thanks.
May 19th, 2007 at 5:03 am
Our latest favorite is “We want a social networking site like facebook for around $500″.
May 19th, 2007 at 5:58 am
How about the client who asks for a substantial update, then you quote them, so they cut the needed updates until the quote is basically free, then they turn around and complain that they never got what they asked for, even though it was their decision b/c they were too cheap to do it right the first time.
May 19th, 2007 at 6:35 am
Nice top 10. But i am sure we could easily bring that up to top 1000 if we do a world wide survey.
actually i am interested in the disclaimer on images provided by clients. I work in Asia and using images from others is done as easily as going to the pub in England. Does anybody have one generic disclaimer to share on that subject.
thks
May 19th, 2007 at 6:59 am
Gold. I think you covered just about everything there - the art of mediating between what someone “wants” and what is practical and at a quality standard.
May 19th, 2007 at 7:10 am
[...] 10 Nightmare Web Design Clients [...]
May 19th, 2007 at 8:15 am
I recently had a client requests fancy looking signature at the bottom of his “About Us” page. I figured he wanted it to look more professional so I picked out a nice elegant cursive font and put it at the bottom of the page. Fully legible and very elegant.
I got this reply.
“We want it more, like a Mans signature, much more messy”.
So now.. what do write some crappy signature and scan it in, only to make everyone that reads that page instilled with a sense of insecurity about how legit this guy really is?
So times I just want to email them back with some bogus tech mumbo jumbo saying “Ohh sorry that can’t be changed anymore, its been hard coded into the main frame terminal, and the processor isn’t due for another sector realignment for another 6 weeks.”
May 19th, 2007 at 9:31 am
Oh what a WONDERFUL read! My favourite was the twit (sorry, prospective client) who parted with an unknown sum of money in a pub one night to acquire one of these hundreds of mobile phone frame websites doing the rounds a couple of years ago.
Then asked if I could optimise it so he could beat Carphone Warehouse!
May 19th, 2007 at 10:49 am
I write articles on web design clients, horrible sales presentation mistakes, web crediblity destroyers, usability analysis, user observation tests, etc.
Check posts like “You Already Have a [Dysfunctional] Web Site” and “Do your customers want you to have a web site?” at:
http://spyderblog1.blogspot.com
twitter.com/vaspers
May 19th, 2007 at 10:49 am
P.S. love this post, am Twittering it now to give it Google Juice as I listen to CalacanisCast #21 w/ Evan Williams and Jason Calacanis.
May 19th, 2007 at 11:47 am
This is one of th best articles I’ve read in a while. The term ‘Nightmare’ fits just great. People often don’t understand the principles of web design are different than the design principles..
May 19th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
If only this article had been around when I was in design school…
Thanks for the one about the client’s niece/son/cousin redoing the design for free. My first client did this to me too! She would approve anything I showed her, I would start developing and then, “Oh I was looking at this OTHER site and I really liked the colors they used…” Redo Photoshop comps, start again. HINT: She gave me a final approval for the current design as soon as I showed her an invoice for time spent so far.
Here’s the punchline, she called me a month later after the site was launched, live and (mostly) paid for, and told me that her cousin had offered to do a site for her for free so it had been redesigned! At least she remembered to tell me (eventually) and when I checked it out, they had changed the home page to a clashing, no-nav mess that linked to a HUGE pdf. file. I had to take my only client off my portfolio on my site!
May 19th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
[...] read more | digg story [...]
May 19th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Clients you don’t want…
Then they got all offended when I removed my “Designed by…” credit from the bottom of their site.Some guy did a good sum up of 10 web design clients you want to avoid. I must figure out a plan to handle those people before I start my own business…
May 19th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
Great post!
You’ve just got yourself one more reader
May 19th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Sad and funny at the same time. I mean why do they need a designer when they don’t listen to his advices.
May 19th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
[...] Nightmare web design clients | MB Web Design Blog O pesadelo que qualquer um que trabalha com design (tags: webdesign design web development funny blog clients) [...]
May 19th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Nice read indeed
I’ve encounterd some of this problems aswell, it takes a lot of your nerves but you gotta do what you gotta do 
May 19th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
This is a fun write-up. I’m sure we’d all agree that while amusing and annoying at the same time, these kind of clients represent the vast minority, thank God!
May 19th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
If you guys liked those, you might want to check out http://www.cafecomics.biz/forumcafe2/viewforum.php?f=5 or go here at http://forum.howdesign.com/tm.aspx?m=252198&mpage=3&key=cheesecake
I know the guy that did those cool comics too!
May 19th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Damn true… I’ve experienced things like that a lot…
May 19th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
I have to say I laughed at every word in this post.
May 19th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
[...] who were stupid, silly or downright weird. Maybe all three. Feel free to add your own stories.read more | digg [...]
May 19th, 2007 at 6:00 pm
I’m a freelance web security auditor, myself, so I experience a lot of what you’re talking about.
One guy actually asked me to redo his web design for him!
Reminds me of a Mitch Hedberg line:
“As a comic, people always ask me to do related things that I can’t do. Like, ‘Hey, Mitch, you can say funny stuff… Can you act?’ It’s like if I studied for years to become the best chef in the world and some guy was like: ‘Hey, you cook real good… Can you farm?’”
May 19th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
#6 - “It sucks.”
I recently had a client who gave me very unconstructive feed-backs, in the up-mentioned style. There’s a fact: with such feed-back there’s no project evolution.
May 19th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Here is a suggestion to help you with “#2 - Just one more small change…”
Save every bit of change you do in folders/files of “versions” so that going back is as easy as CTRL+Z.. it happened to me so many times, now this method is like second nature to me!
May 19th, 2007 at 7:04 pm
What a gem. It reminded me why I changed careers. I look forward to more entries…we’ve all been there! Oh! Did you cover the client that wants to sit with you when you are designing so they can tell you what they like and don’t like? My mentor said to always charge double for those clients who insist on ‘art directing’!
May 19th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
One I’ve learnt a big lesson from is “can you just make one small change?” or “add one more page?” for no extra charge, which then turns into changing a hell of a lot more leading you to lose a lot of money.
May 19th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
[...] companies. My favorite being “why am I not #1 in Google“. I ask the same question every day Nightmare web design clients A fantastic rant about Digg and Reddit (and a few other topics). I must agree with several of the [...]
May 19th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
I’m newer to web development but from my experience the trick is to work for small companies that either take on few projects but big ones (like 1 - 3 a year) or are developing their own product internally and have few to no investors.
This prevents a lot of the stupidity that you get from clients and you have a boss to deal with stuff.
May 19th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
[...] Link [...]
May 19th, 2007 at 11:52 pm
Analogous story was trying to sell website ads for a website that focused on the city of Idaho Falls, Idaho. Since it was a local website, most visitors live in the town, so charges were based on monthly visitor counts.
One local businessman (who went out of business just a couple months later) got mad at the impression-based cost, and wanted to pay only when someone clicked through to his website. Never mind that he ran a restaurant, and his website had no means to earn money.
I asked if he only paid the local newspaper when customers mentioned they had seen his newspaper ad, since that was the same concept.
May 20th, 2007 at 3:11 am
Being a website designer myself, i agree with what your getting at
May 20th, 2007 at 4:46 am
I run an advertising and marketing agency that specializes in credit union marketing and advertising. We have done dozens of high end web design and development projects for our clients. I can say with 100% certainty that 75% of those projects start with an excellent design that through “design by committee” gets destroyed.
We should trust clients to know their customers/members. But it is very common to have your client contact respond with “I don’t like it” and ask for a completely different look.
I had a client who happen to be in his late 50’s ask for a site to be designed to target potential customers that were in their mid teens to late 20’s. The business was the largest specialty surf/skate/ski shop in the area. We did some work, did a few focus groups on features and design - we got very positive response from the focus groups and some genuine excitement. The client didn’t like it. He “didn’t get it” and dismissed all our supporting evidence. He then proceeded to dump tens of thousands of dollars into advertising on a hip hop station and delayed all other marketing. We warned him about doing this - he wasn’t approaching his target demo and his ads ran through school hours. It was a complete failure and generated very little sales.
Sometimes a client will only see what they want, you have to cut bait and fish another pond. I have fired many clients. It has taken me 15 years to learn when a client is not going to work out.
This is probably the most important skill in web development and advertising.
Good luck all!
May 20th, 2007 at 5:23 am
[...] Nightmare web design clients | MB Web Design Blog 做网站的几大禁忌，写的很幽默 (tags: webdesign funny humor) [...]
May 20th, 2007 at 5:27 am
“One worth mentioning: a client recently informed my company that a form on her site was broken. We asked what was broken and she explained that the ENTER button shouldn’t submit automatically, that this isn’t what people expect, that people use the ENTER button to “move from field to field”. We really didn’t know what to say at first.”
She’s dead right. If by enter button you mean enter key, which I think she did. A website I support has a regular problem with people using enter to move from field to field and the form submitting.
May 20th, 2007 at 6:28 am
[...] Nightmare web design clients | MB Web Design Blog (tags: webdesign) [...]
May 20th, 2007 at 9:55 am
[...] you go. An article with 10 good reasons why I don’t make websites anymore. It’s rare for me to just link to an outside article, but this one really says everything I [...]
May 20th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
Great article. These horror stories happen in all service industries because 1. everyone wants the most they can get for the least money 2. everyone thinks they are more expert than they are, and 3. even if a client is aware they are asking for the unreasonable, they take the chance they can bully you into giving them what they want.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
[...] “Black on white is boring. How about hot pink on lime green? And can we make the logo spin? And Ariel is boring, let’s use Comic Sans.” [link] [...]
May 20th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
[...] ficam alguns exemplos clássicos. Nightmare web design clients Share [...]
May 21st, 2007 at 12:37 am
I hate clients!
I want to earn money by designing webpages, without talking to the customers! Often they don’t like what you do, but they can’t tell you what they don’t like about or what they do like about it. If you ask them what they want their answer usually is something like “I like blue.”. Well, congratulations. I’ll just make blue page with white text!
May 21st, 2007 at 2:26 am
[...] Nightmare web design clients | MB Web Design Blog (tags: webdesign design funny web clients business) [...]
May 21st, 2007 at 3:49 am
this is why i don’t deal with small businesses. The education they require is just not worth it!
May 21st, 2007 at 4:35 am
One recent doozy that I got was from client who wanted a CMS. I asked him for a site description or at least a site map. He (eventually, after much nail pulling) provided me with a weak, two sentence site description. When I requested more detail, he explained that the CMS should just “do everything”.
I suggested, as politely as I could muster, that if such a system existed, programming would be obsolete.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:12 am
[...] Link to 10 Nightmare Web Design Clients [...]
May 21st, 2007 at 10:54 am
Nightmare web design clients…
Nightmare web design clients…
May 21st, 2007 at 12:29 pm
[...] who cum asking for web site design and dnt agree with any of the specifications the designer gives >> No Comments so far Leave a comment RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI [...]
May 21st, 2007 at 1:23 pm
[...] Read the full details here. [...]
May 21st, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Just the real life for a freelancer - you’re so true !!
May 21st, 2007 at 3:06 pm
[...] Här är en ganska rolig blogg av en webbdesigner som listar några hemska erfarenheter han har haft med sina kunder. Alla som pysslat med webb nån gång känner nog igen sig. Sorterad under Webbdesign har [...]
May 21st, 2007 at 3:09 pm
Be very worried if a client says “Oh, just use a nice font for our logo”. I’ve had this happen countless times. Vague terms like “nice” means the client either has no idea what they want or they don’t know how to commuicate it. Ask for examples whenever a client uses vague terms like “nice, good looking, great, or cool”.
Also, it’s almost always a bad idea to develop a web site design without having an approved logo beforehand. If they don’t have a logo either include logo design in your budget or refer them to a design firm that will create one for them before you get started.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:25 pm
[...] read more | digg story [...]
May 21st, 2007 at 6:10 pm
So true, it’s very frustrating.
I have become more interested in developing my own websites and making revenue from advertising (Google AdSense) rather than for clients. Working for yourself is so much better - although it’s not usually easy money.
May 21st, 2007 at 8:05 pm
I’m no expert web designer but I loved the stories. Been there done that in any creative endeavor for unsophisticated clients. I am curious, though, how web designers can get to be so good without having to know how to spell?
May 21st, 2007 at 8:44 pm
As a graphic designer I’ve experienced all the same problems. When “arguing” with a client once about color I was told I was colored blind.
May 21st, 2007 at 11:52 pm
I can relate to most, if not all of these. Funny stuff! Well, in hindsight anyway. Thanks for sharing.
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:34 am
Great article! had me laughing all the way through!
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:40 am
[...] Now that sounds familiar! Spread the word! [...]
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:17 pm
[...] I don’t do much web work. A lot of people know someone with Dreamweaver and similar programs and go for cheap inadequate sites as opposed to a good site that meets their needs. Most people really don’t know what the site is supposed to do except be cool and look good; with lots of flash, fonts, blinking crap, etc. No thanks, I’ll let the relatives of the person wanting the site do it. Educating the client is most of the battle of what can be used, can’t used, copyright, etc. Then there are these examples to think about. [...]
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:38 pm
My favorite is when you install a forum for a client and you become the free-labor admin all of sudden.
UGH!
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Let’s see…some past experiences that this brings to mind…
I seemed to run into a lot of loonies when freelancing…
My first freelance job was for a college professor who wanted a website for her on-the-side Christian ministry. I set up a contract with her that included a timeline specifying what dates she would need to have her materials to me. Running down the list, she said she would have to get permission to post some of her writings on the web. At first I thought she meant permission from her publisher, but after a few minutes more of her rambling about it, I realized she meant she was going to have to ask GOD for permission to post them. She told me she’d update me as soon as she had heard from Him.
Another guy wanted me to create a 3D animated, spinning brain to use as his logo on each page of his site. I quickly explained to him that our contract, which he signed without complaint, only covered the creation of a 2D two color logo and specifically indicated that any work done in Flash would be done at an extra hourly rate. I never heard from him again. Thankfully he’d already given me a downpayment of $500. I got paid to do practically nothing.
Another time, a friend roped me into designing a logo and website for her boss, who was a tax lawyer. When I went in to meet with her, I asked her what sort of concept she had for the website and she told me with a straight face that she wanted the website design to “Scream SEX!” She went on to say that she wanted a design that would “kick visitors in the genitals and leave them with the urge to go out and make love.” Being the poor college kid that I was, I ended up creating a logo for her, and then after a month of very limited communication from her, I contacted her to nullify our contract (which stipulated I could do so if I did not receive certain materials by an agreed upon date). Come to find out she had been using my logo concept to have letterhead printed, and never even told me that she approved the design. AND she had contracted ANOTHER designer behind my back to create the website that I was supposed to make…which turned out to be a run of the mill CSS template with MY logo design plugged in all over it.
Being the jobless college student that I was, I couldn’t afford to make a legal fuss about it, and I wasn’t exactly anxious to go head to head with a sex-starved lawyer. Thankfully, I had demanded quite a bit of money up front and she was loony enough to go for it, so I did at least get paid for the logo work.
There’s something to say about having a well written contract that covers all the bases AND requiring money up front to protect yourself. I don’t freelance anymore because I’m tired of dealing with loonies like these.
May 23rd, 2007 at 3:43 am
Great stuff here; very similar to what I had to say in “People Actually Pay That for a Website!” At LevelTen we generate about 400 leads every month you can imagine as a result the Ebay, MySpace, Amazon combo comes up all the time.
May 23rd, 2007 at 6:31 am
who would be a web designer? we all must be mad!
May 23rd, 2007 at 10:25 am
Wonderful article. Sometimes, when stupidity rules on both sides, things can get even worse…:
I worked as an online-editor for a german company in public health for the last 5 years.
When the company grew bigger, they decided to do a complete site relaunch. So they spent about 300.000 Euros (!!!) for the project - paid to the agency who did the print stuff (like brochures, flyers and posters) form them in the past 20 years. Their manager declared they were experts on PR and Webdesign. (As I learned, the only skill of the manager was to be the private golf-partner of our manager …). So they sat down and made their, um… , templates (let’s call it that way) with Adobe Photoshop. When they finished their 60 PSD-Files along with some overblown ideas on functionality and structure, they just handeed it over tho the programmers (in fact, they “held themeselves” a small web design agency as a “sub”) saying: program all this to work properly within the “typo3″ CMS.
The “templates”, stucture and functionalities were undergoing a lot of changes, as the programmers pointed some things out that would simply not work - and as I pointed out some things that simply were illegal… . It ended up in meetings where the agency printed out screenshots, held them against their psd-files, stating “this must move 5px to the right” etc. etc.
Can you imagine why i got sick of it and work somewhere else?
May 23rd, 2007 at 4:40 pm
For the past minute or two, I was trying to think of a few positive remarks I could make about your entry, but there wasn’t much to say without sounding corny. Instead, I’ll just say that I enjoyed it.
The real point of this response, however, is to point something out in regards to number five. First and foremost, I mostly agree with your point. “Junior grade” designers are rarely worth a penny; however–and I may be going out on a limb here–there are cases in which the said “nephew” can rightly design a site, and for much less than professional designers.
My case in point? The only design I have still remaining on the Internet, a website I designed for my friend’s World of Warcraft guild:
http://www.wickedtempest.com/
I’ll be the first to admit that it’s not without its flaws, nor entirely functional, but it’s what I was able to come up with from scratch and for no payment whatsoever. As a 17 year old, I, for whatever reason, felt the need to defend my “honor.” I’m not a career designer and haven’t spent any time in Notepad since I completed that design in August of 2006, but I wanted to make it known that not all of us [younger designers] are completely incompetent. Though, I’m sure that wasn’t the point you were trying to make in the first place.
I did find your mock design quite entertaining, however. It reminds me of my old Homestead/Excite days, before I took to serious design.
(P.S.: Perhaps I’m only biased towards my design because I poured a lot of time and effort into it. Maybe you’ll find it less-than-adequate? Actually, come to think of it, I think it would be interesting to read a designer’s opinion of it, having only heard praise from my friends.)
Sorry about the long and mostly useless comment; this is what arises from Stumbling.
May 23rd, 2007 at 4:56 pm
Amazing, frightening, priceless! I don’t feel so alone any more! I’ve developed a theory on the unwanted types and some practical methods to weed them out:
How to Avoid Getting Screwed By New Clients
May 23rd, 2007 at 5:35 pm
Haha that is a great list, I can certainly relate to most of them.
May 24th, 2007 at 12:23 am
The trick is, Incoculate against those kind of problems before your start.
Tell them a story about a client who was stupid for wanting clashing colours and stolen artwork, how it turned away clients. Basically, anything you dont want to have happen - make them feel so stupid for even thinkinging it BEFORE they get a chance to go there. See how that goes.
May 24th, 2007 at 12:24 am
oops spelling ;/
Inoculate*
May 24th, 2007 at 4:15 am
Lol don’t let matt cutts know you exchanged web design in exchange for a link. That’s immediate criteria to be blacklisted.
May 24th, 2007 at 6:57 am
[...] Nightmare web design clients. Technorati Tags: client mistakes, clients, nightmare clients, web design, website design [...]
May 24th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Thanks for the entering read. A clueless client is one thing, one who refuses to “get a clue” is another matter. We are wise to avoid those who want something for nothing or, in the case of the pirated Google Images guy want you to participate in their theft.
May 24th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
[...] MB Web Design - Nightmare Clients! [...]
May 24th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
[...] personal favorite request is when potential client’s claim their site needs to have “The WOW Factor.” Immediately, I ask them to elaborate on what exactly defines “The WOW Factor.” More often than [...]
May 24th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
Nice post, I feel your pain with many of these issues. Recently we were working on a re-design for a real estate company our statement of work included re-building their logo. After numerous discussions with the client she decided she would like the see her company represented by an old key. After 5 mock ups she still wasn’t happy, one of her comments was, “Something is wrong, this looks really choppy, do I need to remind you that we are professionals? “.
This comment inspired a 30 min conversation on what happens if you resize a low rez proof to over 300X the pixel resolution. - she did this in word, hoping to see more of the fine detail.
May 24th, 2007 at 5:37 pm
[...] MB Web Design - Nightmare Clients! [...]
May 24th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
That’s funny! And I have encountered a few such requests on forums… ‘…I have this great idea and if you code it for me, we’ll be rich’ or ‘…I want a site that allows me to have my image online via web-cam and let’s other interact with me live via their web cams’… :-\
-Joel
May 24th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Thanks God! - some people that share my frustration. Is it amazing when people hire you to do design a website and then through the entire process refuse to listen to your ideas and then at the end, want to know why they are not getting good responses for their website.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
I enjoyed this article cause i get alot of these too. I especially like the “Why am i not #1 in Google?” and the “I can’t pay you but i will give you a link” lol. like an actor paying their tab with an autograph. funny stuff.
May 25th, 2007 at 10:57 am
From the other side of the desk…
The non profit I was on the board of paid out over $25,000 to an agency for logo, letter head, web site, etc. Then, I think because I could spell c-o-m-p-u-t-e-r, told me to make various content changes. After analyzing the site and figuring it out, I added, deleted, changed pictures and info as per requests.
THEN I find out they are paying the ad agency to maintain the site.
I quit the board!
May 26th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
Good stuff. I’m a developer and can relate to many of these especially #8 - your customer thinks they can do your job better…
May 27th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
[...] sites que j’ai visité durant la semaine. Comme aujourd’hui par exemple, sur ce blog, http://www.mbwebdesign.co.uk/blog/nightmare-web-design-clients, à la fin de son billetr, il y a une série de petites icônes qui réferrent à des sites [...]
May 28th, 2007 at 7:43 pm
Here’s a few more.
Person you meet here’s you do websites. They hand you their business card with stock “print” icons and ask you what it would cost to do their site using their spiffy card as a guide.
Customer demands Algerian bold centered for all print and digital ad copy.
You agree to build a site for a client in a different time zone so all communications are either phone or email. They don’t do email.
Client wants you to complete the entire site before they will approve it.
May 29th, 2007 at 10:28 am
[...] who were stupid, silly or downright weird. Maybe all three. Feel free to add your own stories.read more | digg [...]
May 29th, 2007 at 6:27 pm
[...] list from Keith about the top ten stupid things web design clients ask for. I too have received most of these stupid requests in some form or [...]
May 29th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
I love your rant and i have to say it reminds me of my business, a photographer, i spent twenty years as a professional smudger, I cannot tell you how many times I was invited to weddings on the understanding I would bring my camera, in the end I have a much reduced social circle that number people who value and respect the profession of photography.
Similarly in your business I gave up trying to create stunning websites with dreamweaver when css came in, still don’t understand it! So now I use a professional, but believe me I know how complex a project can become.
You are correct in approaching your clients with kid gloves, they are kids after all and solely driven by cost, so treat them kindly, but most of all be confident in your pricing it demonstrates belief in your product…
Lionel
May 30th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
[...] entirely a story about me. A web design agency called MB Design, out of the UK has posted a list of Nightmare Client quotes, and why it shows a disconnect. These are the most extreme cases, but in fact these principles are [...]
May 31st, 2007 at 1:01 am
Enjoyable read - related directly to 7 of the points. My favourite is the pink on green one. I got the ‘I work in Marketing, I think I know better’ line.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:59 am
I can see all of these points being relevant, however would like to show the flipside of the coin.
About 6 months ago I started to look for a new site designer as my current site is not performing the way I want it. Yes it is my first site and yes we did it on the cheap. Understandable for a first site for a small business really.
I have found it difficult to find a designer that can meet my needs. Most of them don’t bother with the telephone to discuss requirements. Some just refer you to thier portfolio even though the sites in it are in no way relative to what you will need.
I guess my main point is just what most of you are saying and that is NO I’m not a design expert. Thats why I am looking for somebody who is. Also you can be the best designer in the world but if you lack the ability to communicate to your customers this can bring the whole thing down.
May 31st, 2007 at 3:58 am
This is a hilarious (and sadly true!) post. Thanks for sharing. Very affirming to know that others in the industry are facing similar struggles.
I posted on the WebPro World forum about this very thing. You can check it out under the heading “Top 15 Ways to Offend a Web Designer” here:
http://www.webproworld.com/breakroom-general-any-topic/59291-top-15-ways-offend-web-designer.html
Hope this brings a smile to you during your nightmare client experiences…
Kelli
June 1st, 2007 at 10:42 pm
This is the reality of the business side of web design…but don’t forget all the enjoyable sides of it too!
June 2nd, 2007 at 2:44 am
Thanks for the good laugh!
June 5th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
I lost my job as an inhouse professional web developer, it was outsourced to a moron like what you have illustrated in post 5.
These people need to be eliminated.
June 7th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
I sympathise with KJ as I am in a similar position although I still have my job at the moment. Our PR department who have always been useless at providing content suddenly decided they wanted a completely new ‘funky’ site. In order to achieve this against my advice they employed a ‘web designer’ to build a new site using garish colours and flash animations taking up half the screen (including sound effects). They think this new site is wonderful. My old site was valid xhtml/css etc, the new site is a 5 year set-back and the content is still as useless as ever. IDIOTS.
June 9th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
JK, here is a brief summary of what happened with me if you’d like to read it…
http://www.newvibes.com/2007/06/05/redundancy-outsourcing-and-my-angst/
June 9th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
[...] MB Web Design - Nightmare Clients! [...]
June 10th, 2007 at 5:30 am
Thanks for the good laugh!
June 12th, 2007 at 6:40 am
Great list!
June 12th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
#8 an exaggeration..? Believe me we’ve been asked for it! Good post, good laugh - thanks!
June 12th, 2007 at 10:34 pm
Forgot about this gem…
“I want to be on Google by 2pm”
Honest to God, that’s what was mailed to me!
June 13th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
[...] “funny because it’s true” article on nightmare web design clients by MB Web Design, which I thought I’d share to amuse those friends of mine who are also mad [...]
June 19th, 2007 at 8:59 am
[...] MB Web Design - Nightmare Clients! [...]
June 19th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Good list
I have a crazy one; designed a wonderful Flash website for a client, she’s refusing to pay me until I give her a ( pirated! ) copy of Flash so she can make design alterations herself. Imagine getting your car fixed and demading the mechanics tools to do future repairs!
June 20th, 2007 at 2:11 am
These are many reasons why I’m getting out of web design, freelance or otherwise.
Here’s a recent one I was asked on a freelance bid site…
They (said they) wanted a header graphic with page template only, so I bid a reasonable hourly rate for about two hours.
“Will your web design also include a new logo and a business card design? We need the file ready to print business cards.”
I told them no. Of course I didn’t get the job. The winning bid was for $20, on a 1-day deadline…
June 20th, 2007 at 5:18 am
[...] MB Web Design - Nightmare Clients! [...]
July 28th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
This is a great article, with equal measures of incisive observation and humour. So many of the points raised remind me of situations I’ve been in over the years - these are the realities of being a web designer/developer in a nutshell.
Clients - gotta love ‘em
July 31st, 2007 at 8:42 pm
#6 and #2 are well known issues. I think that the biggest part of the Service Provider - client problems is due to the fact that many clients want a big amount of work for a limited budget.
August 10th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
lol, these are so funny as I can relate to these, especially number #5:
Everytime I give a quote to a potential client and they find it too expensive I always get a comment like:
“Why is your quote so expensive? My nephew can do [a 5 page website] for £50″
Whats funnier I just reply with go on then. After a few weeks I get a call to help them sort out a site that their nephew/8 year old neighbour had done.
August 12th, 2007 at 2:57 am
[...] De la niste englezi, se pare ca nici la ei situatia nu e cu mult mai roz decat la noi, cel putin la capitolul clienti. 10 Nightmare Web Design Clients [...]
September 28th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
I once story boarded a basic drop down nav to have a client say they didn’t understand how it worked and asked to build the entire nav pre-approval.
Same client had an employee who liked photoshop and would send me their ideas that they were hiring me to create. “sort of like this” “more like the one I sent you” “looks good, but a little more like the one I sent you” “perfect!”
Another client insisted on sitting beside me while I design so they can add real-time input.
September 30th, 2007 at 9:50 am
[...] Nightmare web design clients [...]
October 25th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
Right when I see a client stepping out of line, I tell them to find someone else or do it themselves. No reason to let an asshole slow you down. If you’re good, you’ll find good clients.
November 6th, 2007 at 11:38 pm
Oh thank you, I really enjoyed reading that - and some of the posts, though there are way too many to get through now.
The words I dread “Can you just ……”
They think it’s a little thing, but it can turn into a major effort. I think people have the idea that you just push a few keys on the computer and out pops a design! ….I wish.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
My favorite client saying was this; “Can’t you just right-click to change the entire web site design?
December 10th, 2007 at 12:09 am
Thanks for the article. I just completed my third website. Two of my own and one for my girlfriend. I have had two people ask if I would do theirs. After reading your article, I am glad I declined. If you folks that have been doing this for years have issues, what would I run into?
Thanks for saving me from the inevitable pain.
December 13th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
I think this could be the making of a good book
December 14th, 2007 at 12:14 pm
I went for a opening meeting with a client once which went great until the client said = “i don’t have a budget for this” followed by “I just want something cheap” - this was a company that supplied services / equipment to blue chip companies. Amazing!
December 24th, 2007 at 11:04 am
I liked it the most
It’s good they didn’t say stretch the building and shrink the trees… or worst add 15 stories more
January 14th, 2008 at 9:00 am
Hi there, I am new here. I am facing #01 now but due to is requested from friend, just take it easy
wish to learn from all of you here.
I am a web designer, a newbie
Any interesting web designer’s work I can find in UK? I found that Europe have lots of amazing Web Designer. I am from Malaysia.
Cheers !
January 24th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Excellent article - Who said working in web design was easy!!
February 4th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
I laughed so hard… this was a great post. I’ve been a graphic designer for 30 years, and some things never change!! Except I’ve got some other ones that relate to you guys (web designers) How about:
1. How come the powder blue on my brochure doesn’t look the same as the powder blue on my web site? or… how come my web site colors are all different from this print-out?
2. Can you just make a web site out of my brochure? You have all the copy!!
3. To design my letterhead use the logo that’s on my web site… just download it. Or: how come all my images I supplied you with from my web site, print out so “pixelated”?
To this day your #5 is the one than incenses me the most! However, i think we are all guilty of that one if we reverse the roles a little… we are all expert at designing the interior of our homes, aren’t we? We pick our own wall colors, because “any monkey can do it”… right? Black walls in my teenagers’ room comes to mind… looks soooo coool!! Hahaha. If we didn’t have a bunch of idiot clients in this world, how would we know we are the “experts”. right? I love this business!
February 6th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Good article. I agree, the designer sometimes has to design things that we designers even do not like, but the client is the client and if you want to make a deal…
February 6th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
I’ve had many of these myself and it’s reassuring to know customers are the same for everyone. Even in a hardware store 2 weeks ago, I heard the owner having number 5 given to him. If these people can get the jobs done so cheaplyby friends, why ask for professional quotes? Do they think we’ll offer to do it for half the price mentioned?
But the best was the guy who managed to do 10 and 1 at the same time. His ideas never got off the drawing board - at least not with me!
February 6th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
I can see all your point of views but what happens when you pay a designer lots of money because you want an individual site not based on all templates to discover that is all they have done. After a year, our basic shopfront isn’t finished and the site isn’t in anyway secure. And infact customers still can’t buy anything also they have used free software to design it on.
we went to a webdesigner because we are good photographers and not web designers and have totally wasted £5000. Have any of your forum writers any suggestions because this sort of company gives good designers a really bad name.
February 14th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Very funny and real. Mostly all clients convence developer/designers through such arguments. Customers thinks that all can be done in one moment. Many customers sucks when they saw some future in irrelavant site and insisits on its inclusion in their site.
February 20th, 2008 at 5:17 am
#3
Lol, these people always want cheap price for a good service, they never think that long tail would be a better choice…
February 21st, 2008 at 1:39 pm
He he, these are hilarious, there are more out there I promise you..
February 21st, 2008 at 2:04 pm
I can so relate to #7. Dealing with a client at the moment and he just doesn’t seem to get it! YAY I am so not alone! Thank you for the awesome read!
March 7th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Comic Sans over a nice clean Arial….. get it all the time.
Great read.
March 8th, 2008 at 3:06 am
I just went to a client this week, after non agreeing with his terribly low budget, he tried to convince me to offer him a discount in exchange for a link to my website after his site was finished, thanks to his link i would get alot more clients…right…
March 12th, 2008 at 12:12 am
Awesome post!! #2 was my favourite - you get it all the time don’t you? people just dont realise that the smallest of things can mean the largest amount of work.
March 18th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Great article, I did laugh at some of those comments. Probably becuase all website developers/designers here similiar comments all the time.
March 20th, 2008 at 8:43 am
A website design is more than just assorting few good looking images with HTML pages. A professional website design process can influence ones’ web presence in a great deal and detail.
March 20th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Yeah, I absolutely agree on this list! Of course, there are a lot more to add but it would get too long:) Congratulations for this wonderful post!
March 26th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
A lot of clients do not understand that a website is an asset. A lot of websites fail due to clients poor attitude at times, they are entering the world of web design and the rules are not the same.
I’ve dealt with loads of problem, that want the earth for next to nothing. More importantly they need to understand that a good website takes time to develop. They need to maintain and update the website often with good content.
The funniest thing, I’ve dealt with is somebody wanted to host a one page website on his home computer to save money on hosting fees. Hosting is dirt cheap now.
The amount of times I heard people my prices are too expensive is unreal. A majority of people would rather pay the kid down the road £50 for Front Page created website. I agree it is a poor attitude to take.
What the client should ask is “how much will it cost not to get it done professionally”.
A majority of small businesses don’t realise that is an extension of their business to increase and improve their sales. In web design it is likely you will get what you pay for.
Amazing post.
April 2nd, 2008 at 8:58 am
[...] One of my favorite posts on your blog is a list of the worst nightmare web design clients you have had and why, why it is hard to design in this new medium that people don’t understand or [...]
April 6th, 2008 at 5:11 am
Ha! #1 is my favorite. People have such a warped perception of what a link is worth. Hilarious…
April 8th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
My favourite has to be #1. I get these emails all the time, I don’t mind charity but this these people just take the pi$$!
April 11th, 2008 at 10:23 am
#1 is funny
April 14th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
[...] world of web than to learn from the mistakes of those that have made it big. I particularly liked Mathew Browne’s ‘Nightmare Web Design Clients’ - A post that resounded true with every pithy [...]
April 27th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
I recently had a few clients who were “concerened” that even though the site was submitted yesterday on Google they are not yet on listed. Why on earth!!!
What should I answer? Well I explained how it works. And then when I talked about google rank - Guess what I am glad I was paid beforehand. Otherwise you can guess “No site on google no pay” lol
April 28th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Definately #1 is best.
We have heard that one many many times. No pay until results??? SEO is an on-going thing, and a lot of people dont seem to realise that. For some reason they think it shouldn’t be too expensive and if optimised should rank within days!
April 30th, 2008 at 6:30 am
The points #5 and #7 are a real big problem that a designer often encounters. The article really deserves appreciation. It has in it all the practical problems regularly faced by designers and this proves how meticulously it has been written.Nice observation!!!
Great work. Looking to see some more interesting articles in near future.
May 2nd, 2008 at 6:46 am
This is a top list for the best ways how we can waste our precious an’ fruitful time, and the clients think this is 100% our job!!
May 7th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
I still get clients whom honestly beilive that no content should be below the fold, for the last time, people scroll, people scroll!!!
May 12th, 2008 at 2:28 am
Well, the worst case was when a client delivered a PSD (if it can be called like that, because actually it was a puzzle of cutted images in one single photoshop document) and requested that I use the same fonts as in the PSD (emm…which fonts? on which PSD?).
Anyway some times they make my day, but other times they make my nervs..
June 23rd, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Good luck with clients like that.
July 4th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
I think you’ve summed up the joys of being a web designer beautifully!
July 9th, 2008 at 10:10 am
This is a great article, made my day!
July 19th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Haha this is so completely true and it got funnier and funnier as the list progressed!
Nice one
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:32 am
I just spent 2 hours with a client. It is supposed to be a small website for the sale of a single product. I was charging her just 150$. After creating a template page I was working with her to create the text of each page together. I made the huge error of letting her use my personal laptop, and she took this opportunity not only to create promotional materials unrelated to the website but she also felt the need to explore my laptop’s contents, and start to comment on the ads I was running, accuse me of using her pdf files because the logo of the pdf file is the same (she thought that somehow the logo was specific to her pdf files, so ALL pdf files on my computer apparently were copies of her pdf file). I explained to her that pdf files all have the same icon and that does not mean that they have the same content.
However, she was too much for just that miserly 150$.
Moral of the story: keep clear boundaries, keep clear expectations, keep a good professional distance, don’t take on cheap clients.
September 6th, 2008 at 4:10 am
This list makes me wanna change professions…..
I’ve got to add a couple of recents ones of my own…
1. Client: ”No one’s visitng my site”. Me: ”Well if you don’t give anyone your address they won’t know where to find you , will they?”. It’s unbelievable that these clients don’t have their website address on their letterheads or business cards or anywhere else and yet expect to have ebay’s traffic!
2. I had this one recently and had to give the Client a good telling off… He wanted some overly complex, 5 minute running flash intro with everything but the Kitchen sink in it … I explained the pros and cons, but he insisted. So I did it with preloader and all and he goes ”I don’t want that loading thing… I want the flash to play immediately the page loads”. All attempts to explain the role of the preloader and why the flash can not be loaded immediately failed. His reply ”How much does it cost to get the flash to play immediately?”. He finally agreed to the preloader after a couple of his friends and clients complained about his site not working…..
3. Another annoying one….Client: ”After you’ve built the site you’ll have to show me how I can maintain it…you know change background color, font, image positions etc”. Me: ”You’re asking me to teach you webdesigning? …uhhh… no problem…first of all though go buy your flash, photoshop, dreamweaver etc for like £2000 then we can start…….
September 12th, 2008 at 4:51 am
lol! - I’ve encountered a vast majority of the nightmares mentioned throughout this thread. There’s been so many times when I’ve wanted to tell a client to p!ss off and do it themselves.
Most clients have absolutely no idea of the amount of time, knowledge and skill that is required to design a good website - and because of this they always think they’re being overcharged no matter how good the end result is.
Unless we design an entire site from scratch, dream up all the graphics, layout AND a vast majority of content for them, ensure it works perfectly accross all browsers, and SEO it to the top of google all for UNDER £500 theres very little thanks to be had… oh, and then of course they expect ongoing updates free for life… lol!
- I honestly think most of them believe all we’re doing is sitting in front of photoshop and a word processer for a few hours, thus we must all be grossly overpaid anyway. lol!
If only they knew…
May 21st, 2009 at 3:04 am
Back when I was at the Secretary of State’s office in RI the joke used to be that those who didn’t have any experience in design (I kind of include myself in that as I hate the minutia of CSS and the like) tend to use purple fonts and blink tags.
July 5th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
All hugely familiar! Have link, will tweet.